Jan. 7, 2023
The Golden Age: Flint Community Schools
Good school districts are more than a function of how much money they collect from taxpayers. Schools must connect with the community where they are located in ways that go beyond math, science and reading.
Flint, Michigan at one time was the envy of America. Flint leaders developed and funded the concept of the Community Schools Program. The Flint School District and its Community Schools Model drew people from across the nation and the world to study the educational model. The concept was replicated in thousands of school districts in the United States and abroad.
The product of that district's efforts were after-school programs that enriched the community and provided learning experiences for the whole family after school was in recess.
Skip Harbin, a life long native of Flint, as well as a former teacher, school administrator and school board member shares with us the "golden years" of the Flint Community Schools. Skip provides context and insight to the devolution of on of America's great industrial towns. He discusses the effects of economic changes that resulted from GM's globalization, the breakdown of family structure and the growth of Charter and private schools.
This interview is part of a series of personal histories that showcase the people of Flint, Michigan. They provide a tapestry from which to view the dramatic economic and social change that has come to the heartland of America.---
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Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:14.800
Okay, good morning.
00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:23.839
This is Arthur Busch, and you're listening to Radio Free Flint, and we have a wonderful guest today, and I'm really excited about this.
00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:30.719
It's taken me a very long time to get this podcast going, so I had to turn my phone off.
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And we have Skip Harbin, who uh is a legend in Flint and uh in the community school, uh both in Grand Blanc and Southwestern.
00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:45.439
And Skip uh is also a Flintstone.
00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:50.560
So without any further ado, I wore this Spartan hat for you today, Skip.
00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:54.880
Uh well I'm a I'm a Michigan fan, but uh I'll go with you, Art.
00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:56.799
Okay, just for today.
00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:01.200
And uh Skip, um you went to Southwestern High School.
00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:03.039
What class did you graduate in?
00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:05.120
I was in the class of 68.
00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:08.159
So we had our 50-year reunion two years ago.
00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:12.719
So uh it's been 52 years uh since I was a student at Southwestern.
00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:13.680
Wow.
00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:18.879
And and of course, you were a star fullback on that team, correct?
00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:20.319
Well, I played fullback.
00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:21.280
I was captain of the team.
00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:24.560
I don't know about star, but uh we had a good team.
00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:28.719
I enjoyed playing football, and I played two years at Ferris State College and enjoyed that.
00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:35.439
Uh played on the first undefeated football team at Ferris, and uh three years ago we were inducted into the uh Ferris State Hall of Fame.
00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:36.400
Wow.
00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:40.799
Now tell me, I'm interested in Southwestern first, and then we'll move to Ferris.
00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:41.439
Okay.
00:01:41.439 --> 00:01:46.719
Who who were some of your teammates there that you that you remember?
00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:51.120
Well, Gary Alford, who became a homicide detective in Flint.
00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:54.159
Uh Mitch Moore also became a police officer in Flint.
00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:56.640
I I guess the number one would be Butch Carpenter.
00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:08.240
He and I were both captains of the team, and Butch went on and played four years at University of Michigan, played in the Rose Bowl, and sorry to say he passed away at 27 years of old, 27 years of age.
00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:12.240
And so kind of missed Butch, but uh he was a heck of a guy.
00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:13.120
Wow.
00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:16.159
And uh what position did he play?
00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:18.719
He played uh tight end and defensive end.
00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:21.120
And who was the quarterback on that team?
00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:22.319
Gary Wilson.
00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:23.919
Gary Wilson, a Zimmerman kid.
00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:25.520
Yeah, he played quarterback.
00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:29.759
Now you had one of my favorites at that time, I believe, Gary Sauvie.
00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:34.159
Was that his was that his Gary Sauvie was a few Gary Sauvie was a few years before me.
00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:39.120
He graduated in Southwestern in 1965, the same year my uh brother did.
00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:44.319
So he played baseball there at Southwestern, and uh he graduated in 65 three years before I was there.
00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:53.599
Now, Skip, you spent a lot of your life, actually, most all of your professional life has been working with young people in some capacity or another.
00:02:53.599 --> 00:03:01.599
Uh let's uh take me a little bit uh around your career and where where you've been and some of the positions that you've held.
00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:02.319
Okay.
00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:08.719
Well, I graduated in 1972 from Eastern Michigan, and I got a teaching position at McKinley Junior High.
00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:14.159
I taught there one year, was a ninth grade football coach, then I became a community school director in Flint.
00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:34.319
I was at Homedale Elementary for five years, and then I became uh the community school director in 1977 at Flint Southwestern High School, and I was there until 82, and then in 82 I became the community school director at Longfellow Middle School, and I was there until 89 uh when they phased out the uh community school director program.
00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:48.159
Now tell uh tell us a little bit, uh, because there's gonna be people who are gonna listen to this from other places, a little bit, just the short version of what is the community school director and what what is that program all about?
00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:52.080
Well, that was the lifeblood of Flint Schools for a number of years.
00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:59.280
Uh, we provided all kinds of programs and activities for people in the community from preschoolers all the way up to senior citizens.
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We uh help coach the elementary and middle school athletic teams uh to provide the kids with some good, clean, wholesome athletics, teach them things like sportsmanship, teamwork, working hard, all those things that you learn in sports.
00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:22.240
And uh we we also did the Flint Olympian and Canoosa games in the summer, which is the biggest program in Flint uh for a number of years for kids to participate in.
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Uh so that it pretty much wraps it up.
00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:27.120
I mean, we were kind of like the do everything kind of guy.
00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:28.079
We wore the white hat.
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We provided great opportunities for kids, adults, and uh I enjoyed that job probably more than any job I've ever had.
00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:39.040
So the the Canusa games were something else.
00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:42.959
Uh and that tradition in Flint still continues, doesn't it?
00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:44.000
Yes, it does.
00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:44.879
It sure does.
00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:52.959
And they've tied in with the Bobby Crim Foundation, and the Bobby Crim Foundation is now one of the major sponsors of the Flint Olympian and Canusa games.
00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:56.560
Uh the Flint Schools uh no longer kind of oversees that.
00:04:56.560 --> 00:05:06.399
It's pretty much under the uh guidance of the uh Bobby Crim Foundation, and they've got a lot more resources and things to provide that uh the Flint Schools just couldn't provide anymore.
00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:15.839
So uh that is uh essentially a partnership between a sister city, Hamilton, Ontario, and those in the city of Flint.
00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:25.120
And then families and uh individuals compete uh against uh families and individuals in the other uh country, right?
00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:37.040
Yeah, that was the big part of that, more than the competition, was that when you go to Canada and participate there as an athlete, you live in the home of another athlete who you're probably competing against.
00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:43.759
So it's that fellowship, goodwill, uh, international relations that you uh develop in um more so than the competition.
00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:48.160
Of course, you always want to beat Canada, but again, winning or losing was not the most important thing.
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The most important thing was developing those relationships with another country, people from another country, and uh it was it was fun, it was great times.
00:05:56.800 --> 00:06:02.399
Now, uh that program has been ongoing for how many years, do you know?
00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:12.560
Yes, it started at pretty sure in 1957, and so they've well passed their 50th anniversary, was in uh 2007, and so you had 13.
00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:16.879
So they're about uh about 63 years now, they've been going strong in Flint.
00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:25.920
And the community school director, explain to explain to the listeners what a community school director does.
00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:30.560
What what you know, just where are your activities when you're a school direct uh community school?
00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:55.199
Oh shoot, there's you know, all kinds of activities, uh preschool reading, art for the three and four-year-old, uh uh adult high school completion classes, uh recreation activities, uh men's club, teen club, um providing uh open night for uh women to come in and play volleyball, have a night where senior citizens come in and square dance and sit and play cards, have a good time, have potlucks.
00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:56.959
Uh it was just a gathering place.
00:06:56.959 --> 00:07:02.639
The uh community school was the haven, was the lifeblood of each individual community.
00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:07.360
And when we had to start closing schools in Flint, that was probably my hardest decision.
00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:11.600
You're probably getting this later when I was a Flint board member, was having to close schools.
00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:19.040
And we closed schools, a lot of those schools, the communities depended on those schools for those activities, for that place to go and gather.
00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:26.720
And when you started closing community schools, they lost that sense of community, and you start seeing some of these communities deteriorate as a result.
00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:27.279
Right.
00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:39.839
So I I I kind of I kind of tie in the loss of the community education program per se with the community school directors in in in the uh not really deterioration, I want to say, of Flint, but in you know, a lot of people exited Flint.
00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:46.480
They uh went out to the uh suburbs, looked for different things to do uh because we just couldn't provide the same things that they used to provide.
00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:53.519
Now you grew up in the city on the south end of Flint, uh near Freeman School.
00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:59.360
What were an example of some of the activities you participated in as uh as a youngster?
00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:03.120
Okay, well, I I grew up uh actually by Lincoln School.
00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:08.639
I was at Lincoln School from kindergarten through fifth grade, and at that time uh they had a community.
00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:14.800
I know I know the name of every community school director that I came into contact with from the 50s all the way up to the 60s.
00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:21.600
Uh it was Al Coth and Bob Shaw at Lincoln, and uh they they're the ones that taught me how to golf, uh much to my chagrin.
00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:25.839
But I learned how to golf at in the fourth and fifth grade at Lincoln School.
00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:27.920
I then moved on to uh sixth grade.
00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:37.039
We moved our uh in the neighborhood of Freeman School, and the community school director there was Mel Harold, and we had Bob Callis and uh uh McDick McMillan.
00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:39.519
Uh they were the community school directors there for a number of years.
00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:46.720
Then I went on to McKinley and Joe Fisher was a community school director there, and then on to Southwestern where Dan Cady was the community school director.
00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:49.840
And then I later became the community school director of Southwestern.
00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:52.080
So it was kind of neat going full circle like that.
00:08:52.320 --> 00:09:02.799
And Dan Cady became the uh the director and chief engineer of community schools uh at at a national level.
00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:06.879
I I think he worked for several years at the end of his career doing that.
00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:15.840
Yes, he was at the National Center for Community Education, which was on Avon Street, and he was also at one time president of the National Community Education Association.
00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:21.200
So Dan, Dan really was the guru of community education in Flint for a number of years.
00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:37.840
Yeah, we've had uh a guest or two who spoke about people coming here from other places to study things such as uh the community radio station that was uh begun, WFBE.
00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:46.240
And uh and I assume there were other spheres where people came from even other countries to study Flint.
00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:47.440
Oh, oh yeah.
00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:57.759
To give you an idea of how big community education was in Flint back in the 60s and into the 70s, down at the administration building for the Flint Community Schools, they had an office.
00:09:57.759 --> 00:10:00.000
It was called Conference and Visitations.
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They had two full-time staff members, and their primary job was to uh provide uh conferences and services for people coming from other states, other countries, into the United States, into Michigan, into Flint, and uh they uh showed them how to take community school program concept back to their community.
00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:20.320
So, oh yeah, it was big time.
00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:29.759
Like I say, when you have a full-time office with two full-time staff members providing these things for other people to take community education back, it it was it was something.
00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:34.799
So Flint was a place that people didn't want to run from in those days, they wanted to come to.
00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:36.240
Oh, no question.
00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:43.519
That was the Flint, we have people move into Flint because of the schools, and uh it's sad the way things have gone now.
00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:49.440
To give you an example here, in the late 60s, there were 47,000 students in the Flint Community Schools.
00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:53.120
There's less than 4,000 students in the Flint community schools now.
00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:54.000
Wow.
00:10:54.000 --> 00:11:08.559
Now, uh Skip, you uh at least in my mind, it's one of the reasons I called you, is you represent and are the epitome uh of Flint's heyday, so to speak.
00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:16.720
You uh were raised in the 60s in Flint, and uh you participated in all kinds of activities.
00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:19.919
I assume you had a flag football team someplace in there at some point.
00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:23.360
Oh, yeah, and at sixth grade at McKinley, or excuse me, at Freeman.
00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:30.399
And then we had Mott Football Program at McKinley, and uh that was provided by the Mott Foundation on Saturday mornings.
00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:40.080
We'd go there, and a lot of times the high school athletes, along with maybe a coach or a teacher from the school there, would coach us, and then we played a few games down at Atwood Stadium to to end the season.
00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:41.519
So yeah, it was uh it was big.
00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:43.279
Yeah, sports were always big in Flint.
00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:53.120
In fact, I people might ask me why Flint is such a resilient and tough town, and I think it the foundation is the athletics and sports programs.
00:11:53.120 --> 00:12:01.519
That is what really uh fed Flint and uh you look at all the state championships Flint used to win Central, Northern, Southwestern, Northwestern.
00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:08.080
I mean, for years, it a year didn't go by that a Flint school didn't win a state championship in one sport or another.
00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:17.519
And uh it's sad now that uh we've we've gone down, that we don't have uh our sports teams have really uh haven't been doing as well as they have in the past.
00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:19.600
And uh that's what really bothers me a lot.
00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:23.519
It seems to have shifted in many respects to private schools.
00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:29.679
Uh of course, powers powers Catholic is uh a great tradition.
00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:44.799
Uh and some of the schools Detroit Country Day, I think of, and some of the others on the west side of the state, uh, seem to have taken up that uh that vacuum, if you will, of of the uh demise of public schools.
00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:48.000
So I want to get back to talking about you.
00:12:48.000 --> 00:13:06.000
Almost in every stage of your life, you've you've benefited, it seems like, whether it was football or academics or community activity, and then you went back to be a leader in in that in that system.
00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:16.639
What was it about that uh upbringing of yours that made you want to do that and stay and help the people of Flint the way you did?
00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:20.000
Well, I think a lot of it had to do with growing up in Flint.
00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:29.279
My dad was a Flint police officer for 25 years, and uh he was an old school kind of dad, and uh you uh always gave back to the community that you you you brought up in.
00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:30.240
And he taught me that.
00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:36.559
He taught me that you know what uh we were offered a lot of things in Flint, and and we ought we owe it to Flint to get some things back.
00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:42.080
And so I really feel that working with the kids in Flint was probably my high point of my career.
00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:52.320
I did go on and was the uh assistant principal and uh athletic director at Grand Blanc Middle School, and the good fun part about that was being the athletic director and working with kids.
00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:57.279
That's always been the most fun part of my life in my job is working with kids.
00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:00.320
That's that's it's it's a rewarding thing.
00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:07.840
So you you you went and moved to suburbia to the nice community of Grand Blanc, and you finished your career there.
00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:12.240
And uh when you retired, what was the position you held?
00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:14.000
What was that art?
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:16.399
What position did you last hold in the Grand Blanc?
00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:26.559
I was the assistant principal athletic director at Grand Blanc East Middle School, and I so I retired after 41 years in education and uh 25 in Flint, 16 in Grand Blanc.
00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:30.879
And one thing I found out was whether you're from Flint or from Grand Blanc, kids are the same.
00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:31.919
Kids are the same.
00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:33.519
They uh they're no different, you know.
00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:47.519
They're you know, kids are brought up under different circumstances, and and that you always think the haves and have nots, but you know, there's really they all have, they're all good kids, and uh kids from Flint were were just as good as the kids from Grand Blank, and the Grand Blank kids were just as good as the kids in Flint.
00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:52.639
So I don't like to compare the two as one's better than the other because I don't think that's the case.
00:14:52.960 --> 00:15:06.399
And uh one of the things that interested me is to watch you um rather reluctantly, I think, get involved in the school board.
00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:14.639
Uh get get involved in a position in the Flint Public Schools where uh somehow somebody signed you up.
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:16.000
I'm not sure how that worked.
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:19.600
Tell us that how you got interested in serving on the school board.
00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:23.279
Well, I've lived in Flint all my life.
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:29.600
I still live in Flint, so I'm going on 70 years old and I've never left Flint, so I have my roots in Flint.
00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:35.200
After I left the uh Flint school system, that made me eligible to be able to run for the Flint Board.
00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:41.360
As a school employee, you cannot run for the board of education because as an employee, you can't run for the school board in Flint.
00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:46.320
So when I started working in Grand Blanc, that left the open for me to then run for the school board.
00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:55.679
And some people mentioned to me with my experience as a teacher, coach, community school director, administrator in Flint, that maybe I could bring some ideas to the board of education.
00:15:55.679 --> 00:16:04.399
So in 2001, I was elected to a six-year term and served on the board for five years, uh, two years as the president of the Flint Board of Education.
00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:09.679
And I mentioned earlier the hardest decision we have to make as a board is developing a budget.
00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:14.320
And you know, they say you always make decisions that are in the best interest of kids.
00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:18.879
Well, the problem is sometimes financial reasons don't allow you to do that.
00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:23.519
Uh do you put a new roof on a building or do you buy some more technology?
00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:26.799
Do you put a new boiler in a building or do you buy new textbooks?
00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:40.000
I mean, you the the yin and yang with that was really, really frustrating because you only had so much money to spend and you had to maintain buildings that were deteriorating, but at the same time, that was taking away money from the kids and the education.
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:46.159
So it's that was the most frustrating part about being on the board of education, and that along with having to close schools.
00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:47.679
That that was tough.
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:48.559
Yeah.
00:16:48.559 --> 00:17:17.279
Now one of the things that's always um I've always had questions about, and that is we uh we saw Michigan get into the charter school business, and it seems almost as though as soon as the charter school business came along, then uh the population of the uh of the Flint public schools started to diminish.
00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:26.720
What effect do you think this the uh charter school movement in Michigan has had on the Flint Public School District?
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:37.279
Well, I I think what's happened is it's drained from the school districts like Flint, where that's where when they start losing kids, you start losing state aid money.
00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:45.279
And state aid money helps pay for the bills and pays for the uh teacher salaries, pays for technology, pays for the maintenance, pays for all those things.
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:51.359
And the less money you bring in, you've still got the buildings, the less money you bring in, the less money you've got to take care of your house.
00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:59.039
And so that was really what really hurt Flint was when the charter schools started draining, and they always said that they're providing a better education.
00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:00.480
I don't believe that.
00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:07.759
I believe that if we would have concentrated that money and developed Flint schools, uh, we wouldn't have needed those charter schools.
00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:17.359
But uh the state of Michigan approved them, and uh a number of charter schools did start siphoning off pupils from the school district, and that that did hurt.
00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:39.440
And and and especially uh at the elementary school level, it seems that that the charter schools didn't have the money to run the more complicated parts of education that may not have been as profitable, which would be uh junior high, middle school, and then ultimately high school.
00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:43.599
Because there's so many many more programs that you have to run to be successful.
00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:44.559
Is that right?
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:48.480
Well, yeah, charter schools are a for-profit organization.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:51.279
People had to realize charter schools are there to make money.
00:18:51.279 --> 00:19:01.119
So as a result, if you're making money, they're taking off some of that profit that they're getting from state aid money, and they're they're making money off of uh off of education.
00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:06.559
The public schools did not do that, they were not a for-profit uh organization.
00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:11.680
All the money that they received from state aid would go back in, and they weren't trying to make a profit.
00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:17.119
So as a result, when you start trying to have a make a profit, what are you gonna do?
00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:18.640
You're gonna cut back activities.
00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:20.319
Uh uh, I know it's funny.
00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:33.200
When I was at Grand Blank Middle School, there were kids, parents whose kids went to charter schools, and they wanted their kids to participate in the athletic programs that we were providing at Grand Blanc Middle School.
00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:42.319
Well, the Michigan High School Athletic Association, which we were under their rules and guidelines, said that you had to attend the school that you were playing for.
00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:53.440
And so I had to tell parents, well, you made a choice to send your child to a charter school, and that choice involves them not being able to participate in our after school athletic program.
00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:59.519
And so they got a little upset, but I said, the money that you are getting for your child is going to that charter school.
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:06.799
I guess you need to go to that charter school and start pressuring them to develop some after school athletic programs for the kids at that school.
00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:12.960
Well again, if if you're if you're trying to raise money and try to get a profit, you're not gonna provide all those things.
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:13.839
That's right.
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:46.240
Now it it seems to me as I look at the full public school district, um essentially what you have is a reversal of what the trend had been for the good part of the uh 60s, 70s, and even some part of the eighties, but the charter school movement and the decline of the public schools in Flint have essentially changed the racial uh composition of the school and created a segregated school more or less.
00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:47.759
Would you agree with that?
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:52.319
Well, it it's hard to say, you know, which is I'll tell you what really hurt.
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:58.720
Well, you heard and I mentioned uh uh you know the the charter schools, the loss of jobs in Flint.
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:08.079
When they closed Fisher One, Fisher Two, Buick City, Chevy in the Hole, AC, there's a lot of parents who worked there in those factories and lived in Flint.
00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:16.079
Well, when they closed those factories, a lot of people left Flint because of that, not because the school district, but because they had to go where the jobs were.
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:22.079
And so I really hold uh GM accountable for the loss of a lot of students.
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:24.880
We lost a big tax base when the factories closed down.
00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:29.039
We were getting they were giving money to the schools through a tax base, and uh that really hurt.
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:34.720
GM took a lot from the Flint community for years, and then as far as I'm concerned, they left us high and dry.
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.759
So I'm a little bitter about the way Gender Motors handled that.
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:47.359
And then started outsourcing uh jobs to Mexico, China, other places instead of hiring and and and providing jobs for people in the Flint community.
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:55.440
Well, we've got to come back is have some manufacturing jobs to get some more jobs for people in Flint, and maybe we can start attracting people back.
00:21:55.440 --> 00:22:07.200
I would love to see on the main campus at Central and Whittier tear down those schools, build a big major high school there, call it Charles Stewart Mott Classical Academy, whatever you want.
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:17.680
You've got the Institute of Arts, you've got the Institute of Music, you've got the Planetarium, you've got the uh uh Whiting Auditorium, you've got Mott College right there, Flint Public Library.
00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:20.799
What a place to have a middle school, high school campus.
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:32.079
And then along with that, build a sports complex facility on another site where these kids can then go and develop those athletic abilities, uh, and and then go on and get scholarships.
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:34.880
A lot of kids in Flint got scholarships from playing athletics.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:38.640
Now, uh, Skip, you've done a lot more than just work at schools.
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:43.759
You've been involved in the community in other ways, particularly Big Brothers and Big Sisters.
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:47.680
Some communities don't have it in Flint and Genesee County.
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.799
We've had Big Brothers, Big Sisters for many years.
00:22:50.799 --> 00:23:02.559
Uh and one of your best friends, as I understand, is uh Duncan Beagle, who in many ways uh has been uh uh probably the biggest cheerleader in Flint for that program.
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:09.839
Tell us a little bit about your activities outside of work at at uh the school districts that you've been at.
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:19.359
Well, I was a uh in the summers, uh there were several summers where I was a director of the 5K, 10K Buick City Road Race, and we had over a thousand runners participate in that.
00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:28.799
For a couple of years, I was a director of the Mecca three-on-three basketball tournament, which took place in downtown Flint, and we did that in conjunction with the big brothers, big sisters.
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:31.920
Um and Duncan Beagle has been very instrumental.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:34.160
He has been, like you said, the major cheerleader.
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:39.039
He was involved with the Atwood uh stadium renovations and and and other things.
00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:43.359
And uh Duncan is very, very strong supporter of Flint.
00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:45.759
Uh I I'm glad to call him a friend.
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:46.640
Yes.
00:23:46.640 --> 00:24:03.839
Now, going back to your uh your many years, I know football and and athletics in general is a love of yours, and Flint has become uh you know, it still is seen across our nation as a uh as a sports town.
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:06.000
It's interesting to read in the paper here.
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:22.640
Recently they put the 10 uh you know highest drafted players from Flint in there, and it was quite a was quite a read with uh Hall of Fame uh football players and and uh quite an amazing group.
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:32.079
Uh everybody from Paul Krauss, Reggie Williams, uh Brandon Carr, Mark Ingram, I don't want to leave anybody off.
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:41.680
Um Lynn Chad Noise from uh my my uh alma mater, Michigan State, who who had Rick Leach from your high school alma mater.
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:42.559
He did.
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:48.799
He did, but he didn't play uh professional uh football, he played professional baseball for a period of time.
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:50.160
Right for ten for ten years.
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